VA Housing App: Hurry Up and Wait!

Last week, Bill got a letter from VA Home Yountville notifying him that Part C -- the physician's report -- of his Yountville housing app had expired (after six months), and that he would have to submit an updated report. Sigh.

So, I printed out Part C from a PDF I got on the web, filled out the top, and mailed it to my dad, with explicit instructions, namely, to ensure that the doctor fully fills it out during his next visit in November.

The plan is for Bill to take the form to his appt. on Nov. 2nd, leave it with nurse Tina Hauck at that time, and then pick it up on Nov. 9th when he has his physical. 

I sure hope the form does not get lost between Nov. 2 and 9!

Once it's filled out, Bill will send it to me by mail, and I will mail it to Yountville.

Yes, we are living in the days of the Pony Express!

In Home Help - Visiting Angels

Tara - follow up on this. Can provide interim support for housekeeping, chores, mail until IHSS paid for by Medi-Cal is set up.

Dear Tara,

 

Thank you for your interest in our Visiting Angels home caregivers. I believe you will find that our approach is very different from other agencies.  For example, we see it as our job to adjust to your schedule and to see to it that your father remains comfortable in their own home.  We establish the needs of our clients as our first priority and concentrate on building lasting relationships with them.  That is why our clients remain with us so much longer than they often do with other agencies. 

 

Our caregivers are a diverse group with varying levels of experience.  We will select the caregiver who has the experience necessary to best fulfill your father’s individual needs.  Best of all, your father will have the opportunity to choose the caregiver, after a personal interview.  Our caregivers truly care.  We only hire caregivers with at least 1 to 2 years of paid experience.  They all must have excellent references and must pass both a rigorous background check and drug screen.  We only hire compassionate and professional caregivers.  They are employees, not independent contract caregivers, so they are supervised by our Case Managers.

 

 Visiting Angels service is also designed to solve the problems of the high cost of home caregiving.  I am familiar with the prices of virtually every custodial home care agency in the Santa Barbara County areas.  Virtually all range in price from $28.00 to $38.00 per hour.  Our rates depend upon the level of care needed.  We offer care from 2 to 24 hours per day.  

 

We thank you for contacting us and we look forward in helping your father

 

 

 

Vivianna Ramirez

 

Office Manager

Visiting Angels

5565 Carpinteria Ave

Suite #1

Carpinteria, Ca. 93013

Office: 805-284-0221

Fax:    805-284-0223

www.visitingangels.com/santabarbara

Looking at Late July Discharge from Mission Terrace

I had a good call with Mission Terrace today, which included Dr. Omelid, the social worker, the physical therapist, and Bill.  The purpose of the call was to check in on Bill's progress and to discuss possible next steps leading to his discharge.

Dr. Omelid began by saying that he felt that the best (and safest) next step for Bill would be for him to move into an assisted living facility where he would have 'round the clock care available. When asked for my opinion about that, I shared that I had been going on the assumption that Bill would return home and would have IHSS (in-home support services, paid for by Medi-Cal) to assist him with daily living. These services would be in place for up to 4 hours per day. I stressed that Bill can't afford to move into an assisted living facility without selling his home first. It's not an ideal option for now, and, Bill wants to return home.

I referenced the book I had just finished, Being Mortal by Atul Gawande, and how it talks about the importance of older people living dignified and meaningful lives w/ some degree of autonomy and independence. Dr. Omelind concurred that this is important, and said that it would be a reasonable plan for Bill to move back home with a few hours per day of support in place. He added that there would be some risk involved, but he is generally supportive of trying this out and seeing how it works. He said that Bill could be released in 2-3 weeks, and between now and then, Mission Terrace would start allowing Bill more autonomy to get a better sense of how he would do living alone. Bill kept saying, "I've been living alone since 1999 and have only fallen once."

I also spoke about back-up plans I'm working on, such as our pending housing application for the Napa VA Home, and looking into assisted living places in Oakland for further down the road.

Bill called me after the group call had ended and said that he was pleased with the conversation and is on board with the discharge plan that we had discussed. He said that he is in no hurry to leave MT, as he has made some good friends there and feels that he is actually helping the guy with whom he's sharing a room; he considers this man a good friend now. Bill's morale seems quite high -- a big improvement over how it had been when he first got there.

I am going to let Mission Terrace know that I'm planning to come to SB July 25-28, and request that they plan for Bill's discharge to be around then. I'd like to be in town for Bill's transition, but my schedule is somewhat constrained by a major home construction project that will start on July 24th.

All in all, Bill seems happy and healthy, and the medical staff at MT are being reasonable and understanding.

Added: I left message with Giselle (social worker) saying that July 26-27, 2017 would be ideal discharge dates, as I will be in SB then.

 

 

Update from VA Home Yountville

VA Home Yountville admissions volunteer Dick Sutton returned my call today; I had left a message to inquire on the status of Bill's housing application, of which I had sent the final part (C) in late May, during my trip to Santa Barbara.

Dick gave me this report:

• Bill's application was received as "complete" on May 15, 2017. This is odd, since I sent in the missing medical records on May 26th. Perhaps Central Files at the VA in Los Angeles had also sent a copy of Bill's medical records directly to Yountville, and what I sent was a duplicate? In any case, this is GOOD NEWS.
• Yountville's review process for Bill's housing application will take two months. Then, Bill will receive an acceptance letter that will include an assignment of the level of care that he will require.
• I believe there are four levels: the higher the need, the longer the wait. It's best to get in at the lowest possible level of care, i.e., "independent."
• After the acceptance letter is sent out, VA Yountville will put Bill on a waiting list.

Dick said that the time to call Yountville will be after Bill receives his acceptance letter. The question to ask is not "How long until Bill gets admitted," but "What movement are you seeing on the wait list for Bill's particular level of care?"

Dick's message was not particularly encouraging. He said there are 1,000 residents at Yountville and 750 of them are residential/independent. When higher level care spots open up, they are usually filled by those who already live there.

If Bill gets in within a year, that would probably be fine. After all, I am currently working on figuring out a good interim solution involving Bill continuing to live at home with support services in place. 

Productive and Rewarding SB Visit: May 19-27, 2017

I visited my dad in SB from May 19-27, and saw him make much progress doing physical and occupational therapy at Mission Terrace.

On June 1, 2017, I spoke with Giselle Landell, the social worker at Mission Terrace, who informed me that Bill continues to benefit from PT and OT, and Dr. Omelid estimates a possible discharge timing of late next week (around June 9th).

Giselle will keep me apprised of further updates on timing and progress.

In the mean time, Bill has been approved for Medi-Cal insurance, which, as of May 1, 2017, will retroactively cover all of his medical expenses, including Cottage Hospital and Mission Terrace, 100%.

Jennifer Alvarez, the social worker assigned to Bill's case at SB County Social Services, has said that Medi-Cal sent a letter to Bill on May 26th confirming insurance coverage, which should be sent to Bill's home this week. Brian Bailey has agreed to retrieve the letter and produce a copy for Mission Terrace so that they can coordinate with Billing.

MT will also coordinate Bill's next steps -- receiving in-home support -- with IHSS, a div. of Medi-Cal (I think).  I understand that Medi-Cal will cover 4 hours a day of in-home support, which may include (or cover additionally) physical therapy in the home.

Bill is in good spirits, is healthier than ever, and is making physical progress. He looks forward to going home!

I miss him terribly and try to talk to him a few times a week on the phone. I wish I could drop everything and move to SB to be with him during this transition!

While I was in SB from May 19-27, 2017, I accomplished the following:

1. Had Bill sign a Durable Power of Attorney under the direction of lawyer Erin R. Park, recommended by Cindy Brokaw. Brian B is assigned as a co-agent of Bill, along with me.
2. Submitted the requisite financial documents (bank statements, letter) to Santa Barbara County Social Services to ensure that Bill qualifies for Medi-Cal. On May 26th, I got a call from the kind social worker assigned to his case, Jennifer Alvarez, confirming that he is approved to receive 100% Medi-Cal coverage retroactive to May 1, 2017. (This was the best news ever!!!)
3. At VA Clinic in SB, secured remaining medical records (2016) and Part C completed by VA, and sent package to VA Home Yountville for housing app to be complete. Thanks, Lupe!
4. Confirmed continued monthly support through WF.
5. Went to Union Bank with POA and signed up as co-account holder.
6. Visited with Bill a lot, had some great talks about mortality, marriage, faith, regret, etc. It was serious quality time!
7. Confirmed with Colin Mak, Walpole, that I would handle monthly El Zoco fees of $315 on Bill's behalf.
8. Dined and/or with Wendy F, Gretchen W, Lara E., Brian and Cindy, and Linda Trujillo.

I had wanted to meet with Sue Irwin about real estate plans, but was too busy. Not urgent; next time.

On the home (Oakland) front, I continue to look casually at assisted living facilities as possible housing for Bill in near future.

Mercy Retirement and Care Center sounds like a good possibility. It's in Fruitvale and Danny Vasquez is contact. (He called me while I was driving to SB and was the most pleasant sales rep of any elder living home I had dealt with to date.) The place costs about $3K/month.

Bill's Hospitalization and Convalescence (Rehab)

Bill had a falling episode in his home on May 3, 2017 and was taken to Cottage Hospital in SB. He was discharged on May 8, and brought to Mission Terrace, a convalescent rehab facility in SB.

http://www.missionterracesb.com/article/4307-dr-michael-omlid-named-medical-director-attending-geriatrician-at-mission-terrace

Mission Terrace Doctor in charge: Dr. Michael Omlid.
Giselle Landell is the Social Worker.

Progress (and Slogging Through VA Bureaucracy)

This morning I left a voice message for the VA Clinic in SB to follow up on the fax request I sent on Friday. My request was that they request of the West LA VA Clinic that the last 12 months of Bill's medical records be sent to the Cal Vet Home/Yountville. I had to go through the VA's central call center to leave a message for SB, but apparently SB got it, because I received this reply on my HOME phone (which is not the phone number I gave them):

"Hi good morning this is Leanne calling from the Santa Barbara VA Clinic. This message is for Tara. I'm returning your voicemail to let you know that we did receive the fax in regards to recent information form for Mr. Horton. I'm gonna go ahead and forward this to the Medical Records Department and my salle(?) so they will be processing it again I'm going to forward the medical records request form to the Medical Records Department in West LA and they will be processing the request for you and sending it to wherever you put for them to send it to. If you have any questions please gimme a call at 805-683-1491. Thank you. Bye."   The message, above, is a transcript of what was emailed to Derek. It's from Lian Farnam, the administrative assistant at the VA Clinic in SB to whom I addressed my fax request.

Go to XFINITY Voice >

VA Housing App Snag

I called the VA Home Yountville to follow up on the application that they received on April 19th and heard back from Dick Sutton, my contact.

Dick said that he was looking at Bill's app right then and there, and that it is not currently complete.

What VA Yountville still needs are:

1) Last 12 months of Bill's medical records
2) Date of Bill's last physician's exam.

I also asked Dick to correct the item in Part: to check the YES box on page 2 indicating that Bill had indeed previously applied for VA benefits. Dick made the correction while we spoke. (The NO box had been checked in error.)

To get moving on this,  I called the SB VA Clinic and asked an administrative assistant named Lian Farnam, who works with Nurse Tina Hauck, to help me get Bill's health records sent to Yountville.

Lian said that the SB VA Clinic could not provide the health records, that they'd have to be requested from the VA facility of Greater L.A., the central office. So, I was instructed to fax Bill's medical records release authorization form (which luckily I had, from the application) to the VA Clinic, SB. SB would then contact L.A. to request the records.

I faxed this request today with instructions that the VA Los Angeles send the 12 months of Bill's records directly to VA Home Yountville. God willing, the request will be fulfilled in the next few weeks, and I'll be notified when the records are received.

VA Home Yountville Update

I've been too busy to write here lately, but much progress has been made toward completing Bill's three-part application form for housing at the VA Home in Yountville.

Thanks to Georgia and Brian, I have parts A and B completed and in hand. We are waiting for the VA Clinic/SB to finalize the doctor's report (Part C), which is pending the results of Bill's TB test. I expect to receive that in the second week of April.

Nurse Christina Hauck at the VA Clinic/SB has been most helpful through this process! She has given  me access to a personal phone line, and has been supportive every step of the way in getting these medical forms taken care of. She notified me that Bill's VA doctor, Dr. Wilson, is leaving the clinic at the end of  April, and had assigned Bill's case to her. I have been most grateful for her help, care, and support.

Another pending item
Other than PART C, there is one additional document, VA Form 10-5345, that Brian had sent to me with Part B. It was provided by VA Clinic, and not part of original application packet.  This form lacks Bill's signature. I have asked Brian to resend the form fully signed.

Here's the form:

https://www.va.gov/VAForms/medical/pdf/vha-10-5345-fill.pdf

Happy Update from Veterans' Housing - Yountville

I spoke to my contact at Yountville Veterans Housing, Dick Sutton, and received a positive update, plus answers to some questions that Bill had specifically asked.

1. Is there healthcare onsite at Yountville, or do veterans have to travel to VA Hospital in San Francisco for services? VA Clinics are onsite. Vets are assigned a primary care physician once admitted. If they need hospital care, VA contracts out to hospitals in Napa county (St. Helena and Napa). So, no travel to SF for healthcare.
2. What happens if the veteran dislikes his assigned roommate? They move vets around once they are there. If not a good fit, they move them. You are not expected to live with someone you dislike. There is a federal mandate to move double occupancy to single, so there is movement in this direction.
3. Are meals brought into the veterans' living units, or must they go somewhere (like to a mess hall)? For resident status vets, there is a shuttle bus that picks them up and takes them to meals at cafeteria. First level assisted living gets meals on wheel. Second level assisted living has food brought in. Many vets use motorized scooters to get themselves around.
4. Is the wait for admission (for vets whose status is "resident") still about a year? Good news -- they have just hired two new doctors to replace two who retired, so the admissions process is moving more swiftly than it was before. They used to admit 4-5 resident vets per month, and it's now moving toward 12-14 per month. Admissions for assisted living level vets are progressing more quickly, too.

More Resistance

Spoke to Bill this morning. Our conversations usually linger for 40+ minutes, as my dad likes to talk, and he often goes off on tangents. But today we stayed on topic mostly.

Bill expressed something about not knowing what's going on regarding the idea of moving, and seemed a bit unsettled about it. He acknowledged that his openness to moving is a 180 degree turn from what he had been thinking before, but he's still okay with it.

We talked about the UC Berkeley social worker with whom I met yesterday, and the challenges to spending down his money so that he can qualify for Medi-Cal. Bottom line: he does not think he NEEDS Medi-Cal and does not see the value in getting "extra" care or support. Things are fine as is, status quo. That is not to say that he doesn't acknowledge that he'll NEED more help later on, but for now, things are okay with Brian coming by a few times a week to help.

We also talked about the VA home in Yountville, and I said that Geo would visit next weekend and help him get his application together. To me, this is the Holy Grail of senior living, and I hope fervently that he gets in. Bill expressed concern about the possibility of getting in, and then not liking his roommate. This came up before and he asked if he HAD to live there if he got in. I said, "No, you don't have to do anything, but the goal is to get you in, and then make adjustments once you're there." He seemed to understand.

What he does not seem to understand at all is how to manage his finances. I wonder when it would be appropriate for me to step in and take more control of his money.

In summary, Bill is still on board with moving, but has no idea how it will work;  it all seems like a big, addled project that he does not understand. He said something like, "things will all work themselves out," to which I disagreed: "No, somebody has to manage it and make it happen."

Onward.

Elder Care Support @ Work

Today I met with a social worker, Maureen Kelly, who is employed by UC Berkeley (my employer). She specializes in elder care counseling (for caregivers) and understood every aspect of Bill's situation that I shared with her. Such counseling is a wonderful benefit offered by UC to its employees.

Maureen and I talked through some possible next steps and I came away with more knowledge about my options, and how to navigate the Medi-Cal and VA benefits that might be able to help my dad age in place (w/ assistance) until it comes time to move.

A big problem is that Bill was disqualified from Medi-Cal because of a very small overage of money in his checking account. First step might be to appeal Medi-Cal's denial (find a way to spend the extra $2K on health/care related expenses) and get him benefits. Then, he would be eligible to receive in-home assistance until it's time to move. Once he sells El Zoco, however, he'd have some cash that would disqualify him from Medi-Cal. He should retain his VA health benefits always, to cover gaps in future care.

Some ideas for blowing through the $2K so that he can be qualified for Medi-Cal.

1. Pay for an assistant to come give Bill relief a couple of days a week (say, $75/day, twice a week).
2. Send Bill to a senior daycare program -- get social time, stimulation, support, exercise, phys. therapy.
3. He cannot just give me the $2K to save for him to use later. There has to be a documented paper trail proving that he spent the money on care-related expenses.

Maureen also referred me to a campus workshop next week that deals with the very issues of health insurance and care coverage that I'm dealing with right now.

One thing I learned is that "A Place for Mom," a referral service that I have signed up for, are greedy bastards and won't allow me to work w/ another referring organization for a year. UC Berkeley has free referral services for employees, and I could be using this service rather than A Place for Mom.

I also learned that Medi-Cal does not pay for assisted living, but they DO pay for full-on nursing hospital care, if a client has no money. So, until a person is totally unable to take care of himself, they are pretty much on their own (payment wise), with some relief available through VA's "Aid and Attendance" benefit (about $1100/month).

Got the name of a elder care (gerontologist) consultant, Alan Morgenstern, whose services could help recommend a "board and care home" in the East Bay. This is an alternative to an assisted living facility that's basically a house where a few senior residents live and receive care from staff on site.

There are a lot of financial pieces to Bill's situation, and having an expert guide me through some options and outline possible next steps was tremendously helpful!

Stephanie Doane's Oakland Housing Referrals

Georgia wrote to share about a

friend/neighbor who is from Oakland and she went through all this housing search for her dad ten years ago there. Here are some recommendations:

Piedmont Gardens--she says it's a wonderful place

Sunrise--up on Skyline Blvd. Her aunt lived there

Chateau--in Pleasant Hills. Her dad was there and they loved it

If you'd like to speak with her about any of the resources in the area or these asst. living places she would be very happy to talk with you. Her name is Stephanie and her email is

stephaniedoane@earthlink.net

Sue I.

Today I spoke with an old family friend, Sue I., who lives in Santa Barbara.  I just learned from Bill that Sue's mother passed away on January 25th (same day as Mary Tyler Moore) and that her father, a WWII vet, has applied to be housed at Yountville Veteran's Home in Napa County. Sue's father currently lives in Napa, not far from Yountville, and is familiar w/ the veteran's housing facility. Apparently, it's a wonderful place and has a great golf course.

It was good to talk to Sue today. Not only are we both seeking the same veteran's housing for our dads, but Sue is also a realtor, and would be pleased to be work with me and Bill when it comes time to sell his unit at El Zoco.

I'm very happy to have another member of my network/team, as we make progress.

On March 10th, Sue wrote to share this:

"Just a quick note to let you know that Bill and I have received the basic information about the city requirements on how to  handle a sale at El Zoco. I will have  it on file for your future reference!"

Senior Living Home Inquiries

Bellaken Garden & Skilled Nursing Center (Oakland)
(Medi-Cal subsidized)
http://www.bellaken.com/index.html
2/28/2017 Emailed inquiry
House of Psalms, Oakland
(Medi-Cal subsidized)
http://www.houseofpsalms.com/contact.html
Call them

Senior Housing Resources

Senior Housing Resources

Financial Assistance, Costs and Payment Options for Eldercare in California
https://www.payingforseniorcare.com/financial-assistance/california.html

Info on Veterans Housing Aid:
http://www.aplaceformom.com/senior-care-resources/articles/guide-to-us-veterans-benefits

Info about Govt. of California's Assisted Living Waiver
http://www.dhcs.ca.gov/services/ltc/Pages/AssistedLivingWaiver.aspx
http://www.canhr.org/factsheets/rcfe_fs/html/fs_alw.htm
http://www.dhcs.ca.gov/services/ltc/Documents/ListofRCFEfacilities.pdf

My employer offers support for staff seeking elder care for their relatives:
https://uhs.berkeley.edu/bewellatwork/eldercare
I have requested an appointment!

Resistance

Bill called me yesterday to check in.

He reported that a gal named Heather from Visiting Nurses of SB came by to do her 2 hours of assistance, and spent some time assessing what needed doing. She determined that cleaning my dad's floor was the most urgent thing, and I guess she made plans to do that in the future.

Bill expressed antipathy toward Heather's visit and her efforts to help. He said something like, "I don't know what she can do to help. I can't think of anything." To that, I suggested things like cooking him some food, going shopping, taking him out for a walk in the wheel chair...

I know that it takes some creativity and motivation to think of things for someone to do to help, but to practically dismiss the service/support seems short-sighted.

Bill also seemed to be having second thoughts about the Yountville Veteran's Housing that we had talked about. He asked if he could say 'no' if he got admitted, but didn't want to live there. I assured him that yes, he could do that; and, that my plan is to look for other housing options (closer to Oakland/Berkeley) while we are waiting for his VA housing app to be processed, which might take a year.

Over all, Bill seems resistant to change and is confused by the process and options. I think he still doesn't believe that anything needs to happen.

I got off the phone feeling irritated and deflated. This is going to be one long uphill battle.

It Takes a Village

Since yesterday, I've been busy on the phone to various organizations and agencies, trying to cobble together a list of options for senior living situations that will eventually be shaped into a plan for transitioning Bill out of his place and into a new one.

Here's what I learned:

1. "Senior Housing" generally refers to apartment buildings that house seniors. It does not include an "assisted living" component, and most residents of such places are younger and more active than Bill is.
2. "Assisted living facilities" tend to be privately run and provide different levels of care. One place I talked to yesterday, which specializes in "memory care," which sounds like a euphemism for Alzheimer's, charges its residents $8,000 per month!
3. The Veterans Administration has a number of housing facilities, the best of which is located in Yountville, CA (Napa County). I spoke to a guy named Dick Sutton about the process for applying and the odds of getting in and received lots of information. In summary, you want to get into this place while you can still live independently. Don't throw around any medical jargon (memory problems, etc.), as this will severely decreases your chances of getting in. "Let the medical report and records speak for themselves," advised Dick. I will be sent a copy of the application and it could take up to a year on the waiting list before getting in.

Today I exchanged emails with a woman named Colleen Jensen of Visiting Nurse & Hospice Care who connected my dad with  a woman named Heather who is setting him up with "Chore and Personal Care Assistance." The website says: "Services are provided by individuals to elderly persons who need outside help to maintain independent living. Chore is for purposes of household support and applies to the performance of household tasks rather than to the care of the client. Personal Care provides assistance to maintain bodily hygiene, personal safety, and activities of daily living."

This is a great relief! I am starting to feel incredibly grateful to all of the state agencies and nonprofits who make it their mission to support the aged and vulnerable!

Introducing Bill

I visited my elderly dad, Bill, in Santa Barbara over President's Day weekend; he lives in a loft unit at El Zoco, a low-cost housing community built in the 1980s especially for artist residents who qualify for low-cost housing. (See photo, below.)

Bill has lived in Santa Barbara since the early 1960s. He is 88 years old, twice divorced, and has lived at El Zoco since the late 1980s. I am Bill's only child and have a family of my own in Oakland.

Bill currently lives independently. He suffered a fall a couple of years ago, for which he did not undergo sufficient physical therapy or rehabilitation to regain the full use of his hips and legs. The result is that now he is virtually immobile without the use of a walker to get around. He gets around his studio by scooting in an office chair from computer desk to bed to bathroom to kitchen.

Bill spends most of his time streaming Netflix on his large-screen Macintosh computer (he favors English dramas), playing computer solitaire, and occasionally spending time with friends who come by to visit. He receives regular, light support from Brian, a dear friend who comes by regularly to ensure that Bill has enough food and is otherwise okay.

Professionally, Bill spent most of his adult life being involved in graphic design and typography: from printing, to pioneering photo-typesetting systems, to design and layout, to desktop publishing. He has a keen aesthetic eye and loves beauty in all forms, whether it be found in a flower, an old engraving, a fancy font, or a young woman's face.

During my visit to Santa Barbara, which I make about every three months, it became clear that Bill needed more help than he is currently getting. While he claims that "everything's fine," he could sure benefit from someone coming in more regularly than two or three times a week to bring hot meals, do light cleaning, and help him with personal hygiene.

We discussed the possibility of Bill selling his unit and moving to the Bay Area (East Bay) to live closer to me. He had never been open to this idea in the past -- he always had many excuses for why it was not a good idea --  but this time he said it sounded like a good idea! This is a serious 180 degree turn, and now I am inspired to find a way for Bill to move out of El Zoco and into a senior living situation where he can comfortably spend the rest of his life, and receive appropriate care according to his changing needs.

This blog, then, is intended to be a journal chronicling my efforts to move Bill out of El Zoco and into an assisted living facility in the Bay Area.

I am usually a meticulous writer, but this blog will ignore good style in exchange for information.